2013 game idea for disk shooter

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2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  chefjohn on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:43 pm

This what I found on my first search of disk shooters, very cool,
http://robotsquare.com/2012/02/15/disc-shooter/
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Sam Hassall on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:59 pm

I see the idea of the two spinning wheels, although remember that frisbees need spin to fly with any sort of stability, and two wheels spinning at the same speed wouldn't give it much spin. If one spun faster than the other, though, it wouldn't fly very straight.

If we were to add a bit of a guide, though, to keep it moving straight for a bit after it exited the wheels, it would be more accurate, but the guide would have to be really slick so as to not slow it down. It would also have to be aligned perfectly.

If you're familiar with how a skeet launcher (for shooting) works, We could have one throwing very straight and with good speed pretty easily if we stop the arm right as it's pointing forwards.

Here's a video of one that is more advanced than anything we'd build, but you can see the arm working, and the discs flying pretty straight. We could have it work like the big ball's launcher, powered by elastics and brought back by electric drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8HPpuWyKWA
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  sebastianf on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:01 pm

sam if you read in the description of the link it says that the wheels are being spun at different speeds


in addition to mckinnons idea i also like this one quite a bit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI8_PMO3XWU

other designs similar to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLrsyy4Pnf4
as you can see its quite accurate (halfway through the second video (its quite long) its shooting perfectly straignt!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw0qsGpJOEc
this third one the guy even makes a nice box out of it and its quite slim, this is good because if we want to go under the bridge the bars at 30,60 and 90 inches will impede the robot if its higher than 76.2 cm (30 inches)



whats nice about this idea (i think) is that its the nearest to the actual motion that people make when throwing a frizbee so its the simplest design




additionally for future reference this is kiwi drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR86oklra-Q


Last edited by sebastianf on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Sam Hassall on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:08 pm

Oh, didn't really read the description first time 'round. Still, though, you can see on that first shot that it immediately veered off to the right. The other shots looked straighter, but still veering off a pit. Perhaps if you tilted the entire assembly a bit it would counteract the veering, since that would make the disc turn a bit.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Matt Matys on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:04 pm

Similar to what Sebastian posted, this Frisbee shooter seems to be very accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KVK8svZzbI
I have to say that I personally quite like the idea of using some sort of wheel to propel it forwards.
Our other concern with respect to the Frisbees is how will we pick them up? They are not like anything we have manipulated before, so not some sort of ball or tube...
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  William Surmak on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:08 pm

I like the concept of the second video link you posted Sebastian. It looks easy to build and it's accurate, something necessary for this year.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  William Surmak on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:15 pm

Could the same idea of the wheel being used to shoot the frisbee be used for pickup? Just an idea.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Sam Hassall on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:24 pm

I like the video sebastian and matt linked to, Looks like a solid launcher. And Will, I think the simplest way be something that would scoop it up like a dustpan, although that might wear out/break/slow us down. Also, the picker-upper would have to be able to detect if the disc was upside down- they aren't gonna land normally every time.

The belts aren't going to work as well in terms of a pickup system this time, if we want all-side pickup again we're gonna need to get crafty, I think a dustpan-type design would work best, with wheels above the dustpan drawing discs in. I think That picking up discs and orienting them right is going to be harder than shooting.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Matt Matys on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:28 pm

Sam, I was thinking exactly along the same train of thought - the robot will have to detect whether the Frisbee is right side up or not. My instinct is that it is too intensive to have the drivers only pick up "right side up" Frisbees, it would be more ideal to just pick up any four and not have to worry about navigating the field.

That being said, I think successfully picking up the Frisbees will require much more brainstorming, should be a fun challenge Very Happy
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  William Surmak on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Hmmmm we need as many ideas as possible so here's mine. We have small ramp coming down to the ground with a channel for the frisbees running up it. Then on both sides of the channel we put a wheel to propel the frisbees up into some kind of holding chamber.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbnid=3GcWxqFLzNumMM:&imgrefurl=http://www.otstores.co.uk/p/plain_length_channel_ramps&docid=poQmXizYYdnM2M&imgurl=http://www.otstores.co.uk/images/197_med.jpg&w=295&h=277&ei=NpLoULPCA-3G0AGUl4C4AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=241&vpy=281&dur=14693&hovh=218&hovw=232&tx=135&ty=98&sig=101178814545174005986&page=1&tbnh=145&tbnw=157&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:0,i:159

Sort of like this only a lot smaller and with wheels on the side. Feel free to criticize!
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Matt Matys on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:03 pm

William Surmak wrote:Hmmmm we need as many ideas as possible so here's mine. We have small ramp coming down to the ground with a channel for the frisbees running up it. Then on both sides of the channel we put a wheel to propel the frisbees up into some kind of holding chamber.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbnid=3GcWxqFLzNumMM:&imgrefurl=http://www.otstores.co.uk/p/plain_length_channel_ramps&docid=poQmXizYYdnM2M&imgurl=http://www.otstores.co.uk/images/197_med.jpg&w=295&h=277&ei=NpLoULPCA-3G0AGUl4C4AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=241&vpy=281&dur=14693&hovh=218&hovw=232&tx=135&ty=98&sig=101178814545174005986&page=1&tbnh=145&tbnw=157&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:0,i:159

Sort of like this only a lot smaller and with wheels on the side. Feel free to criticize!

I really like that idea, Will! It's sounds simple and effective. This would allow us to easily pick them up, minimize chances to jam the Frisbees in the robot. As well there will be over 112 Frisbees that can be on the field at any one time. So I don't see a need for four-sided pickup this year, haha.

HOWEVER I SHOULD POINT THIS OUT. 102 of these Frisbees will be at the human player stations... and look how little control the human players have over the holes in the wall. There's no way you can get them anywhere NEAR close to the other side of the field. Robots are going to have to pick them up from the human players...

So it's possible to consider a design where we store the Frisbees upon the human players dropping them onto the top of our robot.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Sam Hassall on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:06 pm

As for getting them from human players, we could just leave the vertical magazine that we're probably going to use open at the top. perhaps with a bit of a funnel too.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Sam Hassall on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:15 pm

The whole disc shooter could pitch up and down as well to aim more directly, since we don't have to arc frisbees like we had to arc basketballs.

I wonder how they are going to stop a whole bunch of frisbees from flying into the crowd at competitions Razz
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Matt Matys on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:27 pm

Sam, I can't visualize what you're trying to explain however maybe I am reading it wrong. But from the way you described what you were saying, (if you explained this I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood what you were explaining) I think it would be a good idea to control the angle which we shoot from. That way, if there is a robot on defense, we can shoot from wherever we need to, and let's get that camera working again to help aim Very Happy

Oh, and also Sam, if robots intentionally shoot Frisbees out of the playing field then they will receive penalties, however accidentally is fine... but it should make for interesting matches, haha.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Krysta Traianovski on Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:50 pm

RTM Wink

There is a net.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Sam Hassall on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:03 pm

I meant being able to raise and lower the shooting angle of the launcher. Some teams did this for their ball shooters, but since the balls needed to have an arc it wasn't as easy to aim on the fly, which is why only some teams did this. With the discs, though, they can be shot basically straight at the targets (there isn't much distance for them to lose height) and the camera could be used as a sight. We could overlay a crosshair and whatnot on the video feed after figuring out where it hits.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  sebastianf on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:05 pm

do we think that the shooter should be on a turret? i say yes but i want to hear what you think
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Matt Matys on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:12 pm

Ah, now I get what you're saying Sam. Yes I agree a turret would be a pretty feasible idea to incorporate at this point in design! I assume that defense is a VERY viable option this year so we shouldn't restrict ourselves to having to shoot from a specific location.

I agree that a turret would be nice, however I think we will be making more executive decisions tomorrow.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Lara Surmak on Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:01 pm

A turret on the x-axis and y-axis seems a bit unnecessary and overly complicated. We can mimic the result of that by orienting the robot while driving. However, movement in the z-axis sounds fantastic, especially with the different goal heights. Similar to what Sam said.

Also, depending on how strong the shooter is (they're frisbees, they're designed to fly), it's possible to take inspiration from team 469 during Breakaway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cgh1887XDo If we have enough power, it could be possible to set up shop in the safe zone, have the human players feed the frisbees, and shoot from there. At the very least, it would send our alliance more frisbees to work with.
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  Matt Matys on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:06 pm

Lara Surmak wrote:A turret on the x-axis and y-axis seems a bit unnecessary and overly complicated. We can mimic the result of that by orienting the robot while driving. However, movement in the z-axis sounds fantastic, especially with the different goal heights. Similar to what Sam said.

Also, depending on how strong the shooter is (they're frisbees, they're designed to fly), it's possible to take inspiration from team 469 during Breakaway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cgh1887XDo If we have enough power, it could be possible to set up shop in the safe zone, have the human players feed the frisbees, and shoot from there. At the very least, it would send our alliance more frisbees to work with.

I as well found out about what 469 did in Breakaway some time when the game was Logomotion and their design was absolutely genius. The difference with this year is that (don't quote me on this) but to score across the field in the 3 point goal, I see that being pretty unfeasible. We would likely have to shoot through the pyramid to be consistent, and even then, that scares me - shooting through the pyramid. Theoretically we could go for 2 point goals nonstop across the field, with decent accuracy... but remember that once scored, Frisbees are NOT returned to the field. There is a finite amount.
But that does raise a good question. Would we like to be across the field and score 30 shots worth 2 points each?

As well, even if they miss, I have a feeling 2056 and 1114 are going to be making bully-bots this year again. Look at the lack of penalties out there...
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Another Disk Shooter

Post  Ben_A on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:04 am

When I first watched the video for this challenge, I thought of the NERF guns that shoot flying disks. I went out and bought one last night to see how it worked.

A large spring provides the forward motion to the disk. As the foam disk is flying out of the barrel there is a metal wheel that protrudes into the barrel and contacts the disk on one side. The wheel is not powered so it slows down that side of the disk, imparting a spin. The disk shooter is relatively accurate.

Here is a video that takes the blaster apart. If yo skip to the 2 minute mark the guy explains how the blaster functions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzMk-G7OjPg


Last edited by Ben_A on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Nerf gun shooter

Post  David Smith on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:55 pm

Can you post a picture and or bring it on Thursday?

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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  kenneth on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:00 pm

here is some slow motion footage of a 2 wheeled linear shooter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa6pcoB90Bc&feature=youtu.be
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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  David Smith on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:17 pm

What was learnt?

1. One wheel does seem to work well
2. One wheel would be lighter
3. One wheel the frizbee contacts for longer so should be more consistent

I would like to know the motor used and the gearing and or RPM of the wheel

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Re: 2013 game idea for disk shooter

Post  David Smith on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:21 pm

In the linear shooter they are using two motor that are like
Andymark 9015 motors.

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