Climbing the pyramid

Quite clearly, the two objectives in this game are to score frisbees and climb the pyramid.
Let me start by posting the rules of climbing the pyramid for points.

Points are awarded for the highest Level achieved for every ALLIANCE ROBOT that CLIMBS its PYRAMID. The Level
to which a ROBOT has CLIMBED is determined by the lowest point of the ROBOT (in relation to the FIELD). CLIMB
point values and Levels are defined in Figure 3-4.



A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.
If a CLIMB is considered unacceptable (e.g. a ROBOT has touched non-adjacent Levels or more than two (2) Levels at
a time), a Referee will indicate a rejected CLIMB by turning the offending ROBOT’S PLAYER STATION LED strings
yellow. The ROBOT will be ineligible for CLIMB points unless and until it begins a new CLIMB from the floor, Level 0.

So following this logic, we cannot have something to "grapple" us directly to the third level. We must climb, one level at a time, to make our way to the third level! So we cannot do something like 1547 in this video, to immediately get there, but we could THEORETICALLY do something like 2056 to get to the top! Or 1114 if we are fine with level 1!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Nf85hDx4Y

I can clear up any questions on climbing if anyone has any to ask

So could we grapple directly to the second level, and then grapple again to the third?

William Surmak wrote:So could we grapple directly to the second level, and then grapple again to the third?

No, we could not. We would have to make contact with the first level from the ground first.
Then once we are ONLY in contact with the first level and NOT the ground (level 0) then we may make contact with the second level.
Then we must be ONLY in contact with the second level and NOT the first level, if we want to make our way to level 3.

For us to count for points in the third level, we must NOT HANG INTO the area of the second level, and we may ONLY make contact with the third level.

i already thought of it and its literally the cheapest idea possible but if we attached a flimsy piece of plastic on the side that hit the two walls as we were going up that still counts as contact right? something thats like an antenae when the robots not in the game but as soon as its time to go up the tower thing its rotates 90 degrees and then it just hits the 30 pole and the 60 pole on the way up to the 90 pole

sebastianf wrote:i already thought of it and its literally the cheapest idea possible but if we attached a flimsy piece of plastic on the side that hit the two walls as we were going up that still counts as contact right?

No, that would not work with the rules. Let me go backwards to explain this time... it's actually rather confusing to explain it...

Let's assume we legally made it to level 3 and are ONLY in contact with level 3. We legally have 30 points.
This means that we previously made contact with level 2 and level 3 at the same time, and no other levels.
This means that we were previously ONLY in contact with level 2. We legally had 20 points.
This means that we previously made contact with level 1 and level 2 at the same time, and no other levels.
This means that we were previously ONLY in contact with level 1. We legally had 10 points.
This means that we previously made contact with the ground and level 1 at the same time, and NO OTHER LEVELS.

So in other words, for us to make contact with level 2 or level 3, we cannot be in contact with the ground, level 0.
Thus, we cannot use a flimsy piece of plastic to touch the other levels as we would go for level 3. Because we would be in contact with level 0, the ground, the entire time. And since we cannot be in contact with level 2 and level 0, the ground, at the same time, that attempt to hang would not count.

Ugh that makes it actually a challenge now i didnt think they covered that loophole

Hanging shouldn't be too terribly hard, we could use an extending arm like logomotion's with a geared motor to lift up the 'bot. The whole Arm could fold down, too, to allow us to get under the bottom of the pyramid. The disc shooter is going to take up a fair portion of the 'bot though, so we might have to keep it all relatively compact.

Yup, it IS quite the challenge! I'm wondering if it's at all possible to replicate what 2056 did in my original post... but then again this is not a vertical pole. It's slanted. So how would we be able to use the horizontal bars?... I don't have a clue right now, haha. It's an insane challenge if you ask me. I love it!

#Ken here,
One more thing to consider is if we deposit 4 of he coloured frisbees to the top of the pyramid, thats an additional 20 pts. If we were going to climb to the top, it wouldn't be a bad idea.

Krysta Traianovski wrote:#Ken here,
One more thing to consider is if we deposit 4 of he coloured frisbees to the top of the pyramid, thats an additional 20 pts. If we were going to climb to the top, it wouldn't be a bad idea.

That's what I was thinking as well, why don't we specialize in climbing the pyramid to get 50 points just for accomplishing a single task? Not a bad idea. Especially considering that the top Frisbees only earn you 3 points in teleop.

I am still at the understanding point of the game.
What we have in our favor is experience at lifting up.
We know the power required.
We have a very good unerstanding of how 1114 did it in the soccer game, what ever that was called.

The thing to figure out is how to go from one level to the next.
Keep it simple at this stage of the discussion.
eg. do we roll, do sommersaults. have two arms
etc.

Shooting a frisbee and picking it up, how??????

Can we be in contact with the bar at the top of level one, and the bar at the top of level two at the same time? Like if we were hanging down from level one, and then grappled to level two and then pull ourselves up would that work? Otherwise I don't see how the bars can be used without the slanted ones except to only reach level one.

My idea for getting up the slanted ones is to replicate caterpillars with two clamps on the bottom, center. I will explain it tomorrow when I'm not so tired.
Edit: Found a video --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSI7FsriMy4
Another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sYYWEu7chk

Other inspiration:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/research/amrg/students/images/project2.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNj4vTRtDW4
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2008/12/19/HyDRAS_Climb_RoMeLab_image.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNj4vTRtDW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y94Yhm1dhv0

Edit: double checked structure of pyramid. The horizontal bars run along the outside of the slanted ones which inhibits the use of most of the design ideas above.

This may be extremely early to post this sort of detail, but I think I should throw it out there now.
We are going to be having a 140+ pound robot climbing 90 inches up a pyramid. We cannot afford for it to fall off. Therefore, I've thought up a sort of safety measure for us. However we clamp down on the pyramid, once we clamp down, let's have a little red flag go up on the clamp to ensure that our robot is safely attached.

Here's my idea which took me 3 minutes to make in Microsoft Paint.
Whether we use a flag, or however we clamp, I believe it would be a good idea to have some way to tell the drivers that yes, the robot is safely clamped.

IF YOU RIGHT-CLICK THIS IMAGE, AND CLICK "VIEW IMAGE", YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO VIEW THE ENTIRE IMAGE.

I had also thought of this.
Great minds think alike.
It could be a flag or a light.
Flag simpler and less wires. relays, code etc.

I agree that a flag would be much more simpler. Especially since the 'claw' (or whatever we want to call it) is moving to begin with, I do agree that it would much simpler than adding more wires onto the robot. All we would need is a tiny piece of fabric and a small piece of metal, it can even be pretty flimsy, we wouldn't even need to use angle iron. And its weight would be practically negligible...

Something like what you see on bikes perhaps? Only not as tall, haha.

didnt you say that it was advantageous some time in the meeting that we needed some sort of flimsy thing attached to the robot to impede the other team from touching us at the base of the pyramid without coming in contact with the important components, i think the flag could be the solution to that problem too

sebastianf wrote:didnt you say that it was advantageous some time in the meeting that we needed some sort of flimsy thing attached to the robot to impede the other team from touching us at the base of the pyramid without coming in contact with the important components, i think the flag could be the solution to that problem too

Yes I did say that! As long as we are touching our pyramid, the opposing robots cannot make contact with us or else it's a penalty for them. I did check the manual and this rule applies to any contact we make, not necessarily if we are attempting to climb.

That is actually a rather good idea! However I don't think it should be the same flag. The flags we would use on the arms would be raised when latched on to the pole and be down when not latched, so they wouldn't be contacting the pyramid to begin with. However I DO really like the idea of having a flimsy flag always stick a couple inches up on the robot so that when it's noticeably bent over, we know it is contacting the pyramid, thus, we are safe from contact, and when it's not sticking straight up, it tells us we are in place to shoot!

Flags can be incorporated in many ways and this is only day one of brainstorming, too. (Well it is technically day two, I am just on the forum at 2AM..... I should sleep)

Another concept for climbing the outside
grab the horizontal bars and use a "torque arm" to react against the vertices of the pyramid, still flipping up, this is a concept, the last stage of hooking onto the top wasnt included in these photos.

*the last step which releases the second horizontal bar was not included in the photos

I do not understand at all.

in this concept the robot grabs the lowest horizontal bar and rotates 200 degrees to get off the ground and grab the second bar, then it rotates an additional 180 degrees after it grabs the second bar to reach the top then one more step is required, left for the team to consider.

the blue circle is 54" in diameter

Nevermind the stuff below, I misunderstood how we would climb from one level to another. I get it now.
That sounds like another great idea! Now the question is, is it easier to rotate or flip up the pyramid, with respect to the energy required?

Ken, since the pyramid is clearly not a cube, we would have to move up the pyramid on a diagonal if we used that method. Like, I think the idea of using the vertices for support is excellent but if were to flip end over end, then we would be flipping into air... not another bar to grab on to...

Is the yellow block there to stop the claw from spinning therefore clamping force is not needed as it flips?

video running through strategies we discussed on sunday for climbing the pyramid, making observations on limitationsand possible required modifications

video i made
Hopefully I've adequately covered all the bases, but if there's something I missed just let me know and I'll look into it

edit: silly me, i made the video private instead of unlisted, but now its fixed